Episode 3: Trump's Indictment, Playboy Politics, & Disability Pride

In this episode, Activist Syanne Centeno-Bloom & Civil Rights lawyer Ashley Jacobson shed light on a historic moment in American politics—the third indictment of former President Donald Trump, delving into its implications and significance.
Additionally, Syanne & Ashley reflect on this past Disability Pride Month and honor the voices and creativity of disabled authors who have contributed remarkable works to the literary world. Discover book recommendations that open your mind to new perspectives and introduce you to engaging stories. 
Finally, Syanne discusses the prejudice she experienced as an official (disabled) Playboy bunny and the politics that drive the iconic and controversial brand. 

As always, we remind our listeners that this podcast is not a substitute for legal advice. If you require legal assistance, we encourage you to seek guidance from a local attorney who can provide professional counsel.

*As always, we remind our listeners that this podcast is not a substitute for legal advice. If you require legal assistance, we encourage you to seek guidance from a local attorney who can provide professional counsel.*

Transcript

Welcome back to Unveiling Democracy. I'm Syanne Bloom and I'm here with Civil Rights Lawyer, my co-host Ashley Jacobson.

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And today we are going to talk about the New Trump charges that have come out, but first we want to talk about.

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Yes.

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Disability Pride Month, which was in July, and I want to share. A little bit about some of my experiences as a disabled person.

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Yes!

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Who is a model for Playboy so why don't you, get, us started and you can talk about disability pride month.

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Sure, so Disability Pride Month is celebrated like you said in the month of July. I'm also a proud disabled woman.

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I live with Lupus, Endometriosis, other chronic illnesses and that have affected things like by mobility, my ability to eat.

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You know, a lot of different areas in my life. And I am also a civil rights lawyer that focuses on serving the disability community.

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So disability is a huge part of my life. As I know it is yours as an activist and advocate.

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But I would say, you know, this year for disability pride month. I my health has not been great.

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And so I've been in a lupus flare. 4 many months. And I have amazing doctors who are on the right track.

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But it just takes time to get your body to respond to new treatments and such. So I had to really prioritize.

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Any extra ounce of energy I had. To work into this podcast that I'm so excited about.

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And but I wasn't able to post quite as much as I normally would during disability pride month this year.

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So I'm glad we get to talk about it. One thing that I am really looking forward to is.

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Many months ago, myself and another disabled attorney and, another individual with a disability filed a lawsuit.

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To gain accessibility to public buildings in the state of Michigan. And access to restrooms for disabled people.

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There are a lot of state and county and federal buildings that are not ADA compliant in our mind.

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And so, You know, when looking at the law, we're really fighting to make sure that we don't have a 10 to 15 min track to get to the one accessible restroom stall in the basement of a skyscraper.

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Right. Yeah.

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When I have to go to court. So, that case is ongoing and I think that there will probably be an opportunity for us to go in more detail about that.

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But

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Yeah.

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Yeah, cause I wanna hear more about that. Cause I think that's a nationwide issue that your case could be like the case that starts.

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Maybe more cases across the country.

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Yes, I would love that. And I've been incredibly lucky that there are Wonderful. Some who have disabled loved ones, some who have disabilities themselves, but they're not, joined as play.

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Diffs who have been volunteering their time on the case. And I am so grateful for all of them and I'd love to talk about it more.

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Hopefully we can. See, maybe I can get one of my co-plief to join us and one or 2 of our attorneys, because it's a weird position for me to be in.

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Yeah.

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I'm used to like representing people as an attorney and not being the client. So it's been kind of a strange experience, but.

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Yeah.

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But yeah, so we'll see. And I'll keep you posted on that. But, the one thing that I did wanna kind of pipe up for disability pride month too, is there a wonderful disabled creators like yourself and authors 

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One of the content creators who I love, her name is Jay. She is really well known in like the, community.

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She also has lupus and we've been kind of going through our journey with. Lupus together.

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She wrote a book called Part of You, not all of you. And it's a guided journal which has like affirmations and things like that.

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Good.

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And so I. Yes, I highly highly recommend it and

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Do well.

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Wait, wait, wait, wait, I gotta get a pen. I gotta write this down. Actually, no, yeah, just said it to me later because this sounds like it would benefit anybody with chronic illness.

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Absolutely. And like the guided journal sections are like. What are some of the ways like you need to pivot?

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In your, you know, goals or your medical care. To kind of like help you adapt to living with, I think really any type of disability, but she speaking from the perspective of chronic illness and her Instagram is at life above illness.

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On Instagram and she's wonderful. So just wanted to take a moment there and then another author who I love so much is Kia Brown.

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I'm sure you know her. And she just had one of her other books come out this secret summer promise.

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I love. Yes.

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So check that out. It's like a kind of like a young adult fiction book. It's so good and then.

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Her other book is like one of my favorites of all time. It's called the Pretty One.

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And it's really good. It's on life pop culture disability and other reasons to fall in love with me.

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And I love that.

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Oh, I love that. Wait, what was the one, that she just came out with that you said?

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The secret summer promise.

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What is that about? Because that one, that cover is gorgeous.

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It really is. So it's very like young adult, but like for today's audience. So it's very inclusive.

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Certain aspects of disability without making disability like the central focus, which is like I love because like so often books, separating a disability are just like.

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Disability disability disability disability, but this is like it's part of the story, but it's not.

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Right.

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The whole story. But for in this one, she's like. A young person recovering from illness and like surgery and she is kind of like wanting to.

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You know, like kind of put herself back out there and. Get like reinvigorated and.

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Oh.

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You read it. It sounds like you read it.

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Kind of exploring feelings about her best friend and it's Really, really good. Yes, yeah, I don't wanna give away too much, but it's really good.

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I want to read it.

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Yeah.

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And then last but not least, I've talked about this book before, but Lolo Spencer who is on Hbo's Sex Lives of College Girls.

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I love her.

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She just came out with a book. And it's called Access Your Drive and Enjoy the Ride and I have read this twice.

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It's very good. Stuff.

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Okay, no, I've been wanting to check it out. I definitely need to check that last one out.

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I forgot that she came out with the book. I feel like I, you know, you sometimes you mindlessly scroll.

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Yes.

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Through Instagram and I was like, wait, I saw that cover and I was like, Okay, now I just remember that she had a book that came out, but no, I'm gonna buy it literally after this.

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I'm gonna buy

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It's so good. It's so good. And it's like I think a perfect like beach read.

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Read by the pool. Like it's a quick read, but if there's so much substance there and highly recommend.

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Oh, I love a quick read.

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I left like a little Amazon review and I don't normally do that but I wanted to.

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I would love that!

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You know what would be cool? You should do a little like. Book recommendation list or something and on social media and then we can do that you know we can highlight it here especially books by marginalized people.

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So I love that you brought that up because I think that would be a great addition to the show.

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Yeah, well thanks and I would love to do that. I'm a big reader and, you know, there are a lot of like audio books.

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Available now versions of those. You know, on being human by Judy human is, one of the best kind of like comprehensive views of her experience on being a disability advocate as well.

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And I listened to that audio book and it's really good. But yeah, I just wanted to like for disability pride line.

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We talk obviously on the podcast about a lot of frustrating things in politics and the world of advocacy, but I wanted to just take a moment to hike them up.

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Oh, thank you.

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As well as pipe you up because your content is incredible. So. With that, my little, Playboy bunny.

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What has your experience been like? As a disabled Playboy bunny.

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It's been.

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Good and bad. I feel like it's so there's so many layers to it because The good part of it is I found a self love that I never knew before.

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Like I didn't know that I could. Love myself deeper than I've. Had already loved, you know, it's very much like.

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I love my husband and I love him more. Like that's how. It made me feel because taking pictures of yourself nude.

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Yes.

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Is a very vulnerable. State to be in. And yeah, and it was really scary. But.

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Yes.

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I've always gone towards things that are scary in my in the entirety of my life. And so the me knowing that I was so afraid of it.

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I love that.

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Made me want to do it more, you know? And.

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Creating art with my body just made me appreciate my body more because As you know, as chronically ill and disabled women, we have complicated relationships with our bodies.

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Oh yeah.

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When we flare up There's times where we get angry with our bodies and we curse at our bodies.

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And then there's times where we accept it and then there's times where We are in a really bad place and I think that's the complexity of being.

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Right.

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Disabled and being a woman. But creating art with my body made me appreciate. Everything that I feel for my body positive and negative.

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But it made me see my body in a positive light because I was making art with it. So it's like forcing me to see the beauty.

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. And what is not the beauty standard. Scars, you know, cellulite, stretch marks.

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The wheelchair, all of that. And I'm not super thin either. So that's been like the positive parts of being a playboy bunny and of course the community I had a I found a great community of women and men.

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Who support each other and don't judge each other and For me, it's Not the way that I pictured.

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These you know this type of work to have employees that are so loving. I don't know why I didn't expect that my own prejudices perhaps.

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But once I got in this in this world, like everybody is so smart and loving and supportive and they're like activists and I was just like, wow, your people, you know, like.

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Yeah.

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Yeah. Yes, well and it's like the history of like that type of work has been so stigmatized in our generation like we kind of grew up with it being like a magazine that was blacked out.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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So like, you know, like our friends would have like, oh, we found my dad's Playboy, not my dad, but like, you know, like people like, I found my dad or my brother's Playboy and like that was what we knew of and it was very like hush hush and hidden and then obviously, that reality show came out.

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About like.

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Yes, the 3 bunnies, the girls next door. That was my show.

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I watched it too and I was like oh wow and then you know as I've gotten older I was like oh wow and then you know as I've gotten older I've listened to like podcasts that have interviewed different like, oh, wow.

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And then, you know, as I've gotten older, I've listened to like podcasts that have interviewed different like models and you do realize like there is such.

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Like a human element to it and I give you so much credit because it is incredibly vulnerable. What you did and really powerful and, as a disabled woman, I can totally relate to having a complicated relationship with your body.

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Oh, thank you.

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And so it's great that you found so much support because I mean, let's be real like you're gorgeous, but I think that like You just, when you put yourself out there, you never know if you're gonna get like.

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A positive reaction or judgment.

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And I've gotten all of those and that brings me to the not so good side of being a you know, official Playboy bunny.

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I don't know if you've seen the docus series on Hulu called the Secrets of Playboy.

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Yes, I did watch it.

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I started watching it a couple of weeks ago. And it made me want to go back and rewatch the girls next door.

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So I started watching it and I was like, I think 13 or 14 when that show came out.

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And. I see problem. Problem all in the episodes. And so I mean, there's a dark side to this industry.

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Right.

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And Playboy has come out and said that they want to be more inclusive when they came back out to revamp Playboy.

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So that's why I decided to go into it because of that message of inclusivity and that sexual freedom is for everybody.

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Well, I think that's the marketing ploy that they want to. Put out there because they know that it is financially beneficial.

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Right.

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But. I'm completely hidden. From the rest of the bunnies on the site.

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What?

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And yeah, so people when they try to find me, they can't find me. They have to go specifically to my link, but.

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The other bunnies that I know are searchable. The only ones that I know that aren't searchable.

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Wow.

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Our trans and or disabled. Or a guy. Another there was there's also a guy who's a bunny and he he doesn't fit the beauty standard.

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He doesn't show up either when you search his name. So it's like. Why is it that all these people that are not the beauty standard or who are multi marginalized because all of them are in some way multi marginalized.

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Right.

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And so I'm like. That's kind of weird because we're like allowed in the club, but we are not allowed to be seen.

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Right.

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Yes.

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It gives me very much greatest showman vibes like Like we wanna use you. To make money but like I don't want to be associated with you in reality like You know what I'm saying?

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Okay.

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That is not okay. Because like truthfully, I mean, that's like. Classic.

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Performative. You know, like, like you said, we're gonna allow you in. Because it benefits us.

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To portray our brand as being inclusive. Without actually taking the steps to make it inclusive and accessible.

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Yeah, exactly. And so not only are we hidden, But on their social media pages and all that, there's still.

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Yeah.

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Perpetuating the same beauty. From the early 2,000 right of the bleach blonde hair and white mostly white there is a little bit of diversity but I mean we're talking about One person of color per I don't know, 15 or 20, you know, white girls.

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Wow.

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And everybody fits the standard that are shown and so that's really upsetting. Because they say that but they're not.

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They're not sticking with. What they promised. It was just performative as you said. And so I kind of made a lot of noise about it online.

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As you should. Okay.

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Because that's what I do. Yeah, that's what I do because so like somebody has to hold these.

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Companies accountable because I don't wanna be used as I don't know, a product. To sell the idea of diversity, but not actually.

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Treat me like a human being or like I'm worthy of being there. So I made a lot of noise about it and someone who works for Playboy reached out to me.

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And I connected them with. My publicist. And I said I said this is a conversation I wanna have about diversity, about disability inclusion about, you know, all the marginalized identities.

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Good for you.

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Trans, etc. We need to talk about. We need to talk about this and. Well, they said they were gonna get back to me, but they never did.

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It's been what, 2 weeks, I think, since I sent that maybe.

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Lay boy, come on.

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Huh. Huh. And you know, there's a lot of there. Although there is a lot of love and support.

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From the other bunnies, there is a small subset of very small subset of bunnies.

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Just like in any type of industry who. Make excuses for Playboy but they're also favored by Playboy.

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Of course.

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So let's, and there was an argument that ensued between the bunnies in a group that I was in.

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Sure.

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And. I was defending the girls from a situation that happened and I'm not gonna speak to that situation because I was not there, but it happened at an event.

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But I was defending the girls because I said we can't say that their experience isn't valid when there was, you know, tons of girls saying this same thing.

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And those who were speaking up were multi marginalized in some way. Or you know black or Latina or another person of color and I thought I saw this.

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Division very very clear division you know I saw These white girls on one side. And then I saw these brown girls on one side.

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Beauty standard on one side, people who struggle with the beauty standard on the other side and it became A big fight and I was just defending.

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Sure.

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The ones who are more likely to be oppressed, of course, just saying like, don't, because the other girls were in validating them.

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They were saying things that were passive aggressive and just plain mean. So I was like, listen, we don't have to name call or do any of that.

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Right.

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I was like, you, you can disagree without being condescending. Or patronizing. But one of the girls.

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She came out of nowhere. And basically started telling me that men wouldn't be interested in me. Because I'm disabled and I'm quite, I'm not the beauty standard and Playboy has a specific preference.

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And I said, well, isn't that the problem? Because they're saying that they don't want.

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To be that anymore. And You know, it just, she became very nasty towards me and it was really weird.

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That she said that and then another, you know, other girls chimed in. And we're just like what the F, you know, or like.

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You know. Yeah, and I got

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That is. Wild. I am so first like I am so sorry that that happened to you. Like that is 100% not okay.

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And. To whoever, cause we all hear those are even true. I mean, I. Yeah, in my line of work, I have to hear from like employers and other employees like why should they get special treatment?

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Which, you know, of course accommodations are not special treatment. It's just removing unnecessary barriers in the workplace.

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No barrier.

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But I hear those things a lot like, well, why should we? Listen to quote this small subset of people when quote, the majority of people are like this or want this and to that like I know I don't need to tell you this but like Playboy is making this change.

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Towards being more inclusive, at least. On, you know, it's public facing campaigns.

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Because it makes business sense to do that. People want to see people who are not this like old school outdated.

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My minority of what beauty can be. And by minority, I mean like a small group of the population looks like the traditional, what we knew.

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20 years ago of Playboy Bunnies. People don't want that anymore because people are attracted to people of all different races.

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Abilities like it's it's a good business decision for them. You are not. They're not doing you a favor.

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Hmm.

00:24:28.000 --> 00:24:29.000
Yes, exactly.

00:24:29.000 --> 00:24:41.000
Bye, saying you are a talented model and so we want you to represent our brand. You are doing them a favor and any Any Playboy bunny or anyone else who can't see that?

00:24:41.000 --> 00:24:42.000
No, I am too.

00:24:42.000 --> 00:24:45.000
Just is it well versed on the business end of things, but regardless that is like. I'm like fired up about this because You should not have had to go through that.

00:24:45.000 --> 00:24:58.000
No, and I never got an apology or anything and honestly like I don't think I'm, I don't feel like I'm going to continue with them.

00:24:58.000 --> 00:24:59.000
Yeah.

00:24:59.000 --> 00:25:01.000
The only reason that I have is because my community, our community. Has told me how much it means to them.

00:25:01.000 --> 00:25:14.000
And like I told that girl, I said, The men who follow me on Playboy who subscribe to me, I said they're disabled because she said there's no money to make there and I was like I'm actively making money there.

00:25:14.000 --> 00:25:16.000
Right.

00:25:16.000 --> 00:25:21.000
And because just because of the way that I because I use a wheelchair like come on now. Like what?

00:25:21.000 --> 00:25:22.000
Everybody sits. Everybody sits.

00:25:22.000 --> 00:25:45.000
Everybody says, I know. And so it's just wild to me that she said that. And I was like, well, first of all, disabled men have told me that they are so happy to have somebody that is like them because they didn't feel represented in that industry and it can make them feel not as connected to, you know, the people they're looking at.

00:25:45.000 --> 00:25:46.000
Totally.

00:25:46.000 --> 00:25:53.000
And it makes a difference. And it's not just men that follow me. It's women who need to feel better about themselves or it is not even just disabled men and women.

00:25:53.000 --> 00:25:57.000
It's Men that are not disabled or women that aren't disabled. Like.

00:25:57.000 --> 00:26:03.000
Right, like I'm sorry, but like my, I'm disabled. My husband is not.

00:26:03.000 --> 00:26:04.000
Right. Same.

00:26:04.000 --> 00:26:20.000
He's still like he's attracted to me and I've been it's just like ridiculous that people wouldn't see that like again disabled people are human beings and are, you know, multi faceted.

00:26:20.000 --> 00:26:21.000
Hmm.

00:26:21.000 --> 00:26:42.000
And like I said, talented and just. I would hope that in the future Playboy offers and extends, some type of apology to you, but also really makes a concerted effort to like root out that old school way of thinking about what beauty is and not engage with that.

00:26:42.000 --> 00:26:47.000
Narrative in the future, not just because it makes them look bad because it is bad.

00:26:47.000 --> 00:26:59.000
Exactly. And I'm not even gonna lie to you. I went to her profile to see who she was.

00:26:59.000 --> 00:27:00.000
Hmm.

00:27:00.000 --> 00:27:04.000
And then I think I figured out why she has such an issue with me. And I think it's my political beliefs and what I stand for.

00:27:04.000 --> 00:27:08.000
Because she was the complete opposite of what I am.

00:27:08.000 --> 00:27:11.000
There's always something deeper to it, right?

00:27:11.000 --> 00:27:32.000
Exactly. Yes, there is. So that brings me to our next topic. The Trump charges that just came out, the girl that I will say was bullying me who was a Playboy bunny was a Trump supporter.

00:27:32.000 --> 00:27:33.000
Yeah.

00:27:33.000 --> 00:27:40.000
Which was very upsetting to me. To see that that's why she was probably treating me that way.

00:27:40.000 --> 00:27:41.000
Yes.

00:27:41.000 --> 00:27:45.000
But big news came out yesterday. That and I have my little notes here.

00:27:45.000 --> 00:27:59.000
Trump has been indicted a third time. And the charges that he is facing. There's, I'm reading here for.

00:27:59.000 --> 00:28:04.000
I don't know if that's broken up, but I'll just read them from one, which was conspiracy to defraud.

00:28:04.000 --> 00:28:06.000
Yeah.

00:28:06.000 --> 00:28:16.000
The United States. Conspiracy to obstruct an official proceeding. Obstruction of an attempt to obstruct an official proceeding.

00:28:16.000 --> 00:28:19.000
And conspiracy against rights. Is that correct?

00:28:19.000 --> 00:28:21.000
Yes.

00:28:21.000 --> 00:28:33.000
Okay. And for conspiracy to defraud the US. What they are referring to is Trump being dishonest.

00:28:33.000 --> 00:28:47.000
And deceitful intentionally. To obstruct and defeat the lawful federal government's responsibility for collecting, counting, and certifying the presidential election.

00:28:47.000 --> 00:29:02.000
So that's the first one. And That's probably referring to. What was going on in Georgia.

00:29:02.000 --> 00:29:03.000
Michigan. Yeah.

00:29:03.000 --> 00:29:11.000
Arizona. Am I right? Michigan. And then the second charge, which was conspiracy to obstruct.

00:29:11.000 --> 00:29:25.000
An official proceeding that refers to the January sixth. 2021 congressional proceeding. To certify the election results.

00:29:25.000 --> 00:29:26.000
Yeah.

00:29:26.000 --> 00:29:27.000
So that was a big one. And the third one I had a little bit of trouble understanding the third one.

00:29:27.000 --> 00:29:37.000
I was hoping you could help me with that. What does it mean? Obstruction of an attempt to obstruct an official proceeding?

00:29:37.000 --> 00:29:58.000
Do you know what that means?

00:29:58.000 --> 00:29:59.000
Hmm.

00:29:59.000 --> 00:30:05.000
Yeah, so essentially kind of along those same lines, it's whereas the some of the charges pertained to fraud so he attempted to defraud where that those charges you're looking at what was kind of his state of mind did he know that what he was conveying to the public was false and he conveyed it in such a way that had this big effect.

00:30:05.000 --> 00:30:16.000
Whereas obstruction is really like Did he interfere with? The government process itself or the event itself.

00:30:16.000 --> 00:30:34.000
And so the obstruction sometimes people think of obstruction in the context of like obstructing a criminal investigation where you don't cooperate with the police, which is like a whole other conversation, but, the obstruction is really like kind of that interference.

00:30:34.000 --> 00:30:50.000
With the process and then the thing that I'm seeing a lot of confusion about from the public is they brought, this like civil rights charge against Trump and people are like, civil rights?

00:30:50.000 --> 00:30:51.000
Hmm.

00:30:51.000 --> 00:30:56.000
Like, what do you mean? What is this old like, 1,800 civil rights law and What does that have to do with all of this?

00:30:56.000 --> 00:31:17.000
But essentially that civil rights law was brought to address. Basically like KKK. Actions and white supremacists and you know, vigilante type of we're going to not can see power or we're gonna take over power or we are going to start.

00:31:17.000 --> 00:31:28.000
A riot or whatever it might be. And so he's looking at I think with the fraud related arguments in my mind.

00:31:28.000 --> 00:31:35.000
I'm already starting to hear from his attorney. Publicly that. Free speech.

00:31:35.000 --> 00:31:51.000
He is the defense of free speech. But with that, I will always say that. Our constitutional rights.

00:31:51.000 --> 00:31:52.000
Exactly.

00:31:52.000 --> 00:32:00.000
Are not. Without restrictions, like just generally. You know, like a lot of people say, well, I can say whatever I want, that's not exactly true under constitutional law precedent.

00:32:00.000 --> 00:32:10.000
So in this case, I don't know that Outside of influencing his voters. And his popularity with them.

00:32:10.000 --> 00:32:17.000
I don't know that it's gonna help in that much in the courtroom just because. If what's in the indictment is true.

00:32:17.000 --> 00:32:24.000
That he was aware he had lost the election. And there were a lot of snitches in his camp, right?

00:32:24.000 --> 00:32:25.000
Yes, there was.

00:32:25.000 --> 00:32:35.000
Which. I've been waiting for because we knew that throughout this process. You just have to know that a lot of people knew things that weren't coming to light.

00:32:35.000 --> 00:32:37.000
Yeah.

00:32:37.000 --> 00:32:50.000
Until they were forced to come to light. So like Mike Pence taking notes. So that he had his own documentation, which like always recommend doing that like you always wanna have documentation to protect yourself.

00:32:50.000 --> 00:32:59.000
But he like took notes of these. Private conversations. That we're, you know, with Trump and his team.

00:32:59.000 --> 00:33:06.000
Where it was clear that everyone in the room knew based on the statements they made. That he lost the election.

00:33:06.000 --> 00:33:08.000
Exactly.

00:33:08.000 --> 00:33:15.000
And so yeah, it's the charges are not that surprising to me, but I'm seeing a lot of.

00:33:15.000 --> 00:33:22.000
Confusion over like the term civil rights being used related to one of them and so it's just basically.

00:33:22.000 --> 00:33:33.000
Back in the day, like the 18 seventies. The civil rights law in question. Was really kind of put in place, like I said, to address the KKK from.

00:33:33.000 --> 00:33:41.000
Preventing black voters in being able to vote. And so they wanted to make sure that like everyone had the right to vote.

00:33:41.000 --> 00:33:56.000
And so essentially when we're looking at January sixth. They were interfering with. The certifying.

00:33:56.000 --> 00:33:57.000
Right.

00:33:57.000 --> 00:34:03.000
Of the election. And so that's like obstructing the process. They also knew that what they were saying or it's alleged Trump knew what he was saying was false.

00:34:03.000 --> 00:34:16.000
And so that's like the fraud kind of aspect of it. And then they were doing it to.

00:34:16.000 --> 00:34:17.000
Yes, exactly.

00:34:17.000 --> 00:34:22.000
Really restrict all of our voters, right? Because the votes said one thing, but Trump and his team said something else.

00:34:22.000 --> 00:34:39.000
And they were actively trying to, the legitimize votes. Change the outcome of the election.

00:34:39.000 --> 00:34:40.000
Right. Yeah.

00:34:40.000 --> 00:34:45.000
That is a conspiracy, correct? And they don't name. From what I've seen, they didn't name.

00:34:45.000 --> 00:34:53.000
The conspirators. The indictments. But I think we can guess. Who's some of these people are?

00:34:53.000 --> 00:34:55.000
Yes.

00:34:55.000 --> 00:35:05.000
I think One of the first ones they talk about without naming is a conspirator one. I think they're talking about, Rudy Giuliani.

00:35:05.000 --> 00:35:06.000
Yes.

00:35:06.000 --> 00:35:12.000
That's my guess, but he was. He, we know that because we saw him doing it with our own eyes.

00:35:12.000 --> 00:35:16.000
Yes, with like his hair spray dripping down his face.

00:35:16.000 --> 00:35:20.000
Oh my god, yes, that was a not a good moment for him.

00:35:20.000 --> 00:35:32.000
No, no, but I It's I think you're right that it's probably Rudy Giuliani and what fall from grace he had.

00:35:32.000 --> 00:35:33.000
Exactly. Yeah.

00:35:33.000 --> 00:35:39.000
I mean like I think of when I was in eighth grade and 9 11 happened. He was like. Treated with so much respect and he held himself so differently.

00:35:39.000 --> 00:35:42.000
Yeah.

00:35:42.000 --> 00:35:49.000
That if you watch videos of him back then versus. Now, totally different guy. Or maybe he was just.

00:35:49.000 --> 00:35:57.000
Yes, absolutely.

00:35:57.000 --> 00:35:58.000
I don't know.

00:35:58.000 --> 00:36:08.000
Better at hiding who he was back then. I don't know. But yeah, I think he, so then the interesting thing with Rudy, Giuliani is that He was acting as Trump's lawyer too.

00:36:08.000 --> 00:36:14.000
And so he's kind of tried in the past to get around cooperating with some of these investigations by saying like it's privileged.

00:36:14.000 --> 00:36:23.000
Confidential conversations that he had with Trump so he can't testify or be deposed on some of these things.

00:36:23.000 --> 00:36:34.000
I think he's probably gonna continue to say that. Lawyer ethics also say that you can't Help a client.

00:36:34.000 --> 00:36:45.000
Commit a crime like you can't assist them in committing a crime. And so it's going to be interesting to see where that goes.

00:36:45.000 --> 00:36:46.000
Yes.

00:36:46.000 --> 00:36:51.000
Well, he was, disbarred, right? He lost his license to practice because he was.

00:36:51.000 --> 00:37:00.000
Essentially giving misleading information, false information. To, I mean, I feel like it's so straightforward to literally overturn.

00:37:00.000 --> 00:37:16.000
The election and essentially steal it from Joe Biden, but I think it's always interesting how he whatever he's accusing some whenever Donald Trump is accusing someone of something It's usually what he's doing.

00:37:16.000 --> 00:37:18.000
Is what I've come to learn about him.

00:37:18.000 --> 00:37:22.000
Yeah, projecting totally.

00:37:22.000 --> 00:37:23.000
Yeah.

00:37:23.000 --> 00:37:28.000
Yes, that's the word projecting. There is another one that says co-conspirator 2.

00:37:28.000 --> 00:37:40.000
And it says it wasn't attorney who attempted to implement a strategy to leverage a leverage the vice president's role overseeing the certification proceeding on January sixth, 2,021.

00:37:40.000 --> 00:37:48.000
To obstruct the certification of the presidential election. I kind of have someone in mind of who that was.

00:37:48.000 --> 00:37:52.000
Wasn't that another one of his lawyers that represented him?

00:37:52.000 --> 00:38:03.000
Yes, so, in my mind and what a lot of news networks are you know, throwing out there as to this is they think it's Johnny Eastman.

00:38:03.000 --> 00:38:07.000
But another attorney that was involved that we think is referenced in the indictment is Sydney Powell.

00:38:07.000 --> 00:38:24.000
And And Jeffrey Clark, I think Eastman is kind of seen as the one who developed the strategy that the others then ran with.

00:38:24.000 --> 00:38:43.000
And so His strategy was also for what is reported. What put? A lot of pressure on and also change the kind of the national conservative narrative on Mike Pence.

00:38:43.000 --> 00:38:55.000
It was really, you're the fall guy. If you don't do what we say, we're gonna scapegoat you and say you're a trader.

00:38:55.000 --> 00:38:56.000
Yeah.

00:38:56.000 --> 00:39:01.000
And this is Trump's vice president. At the time. And I'm not, I'm not a Mike Pence.

00:39:01.000 --> 00:39:02.000
Hmm. Yeah.

00:39:02.000 --> 00:39:07.000
Fan, you know, I'm not a, I, there a lot of things with this politics that I don't agree with.

00:39:07.000 --> 00:39:23.000
But 2 is credit. He did what he was required to do on January sixth. And there was truly legally nothing in my mind and most lawyers minds that he could have done.

00:39:23.000 --> 00:39:32.000
Differently to carry out what Eastman and what Trump wanted and what Julie only wanted. I mean, there's just, he had a job to do.

00:39:32.000 --> 00:39:39.000
He did the job. He was required to do. But it's interesting as like an attorney.

00:39:39.000 --> 00:39:50.000
We always like Listen to our clients. And say, well. I wonder if we could make this legal argument.

00:39:50.000 --> 00:39:59.000
But it's totally different. When then you take that Possibility of a legal argument. And you set it in motion.

00:39:59.000 --> 00:40:00.000
Right.

00:40:00.000 --> 00:40:08.000
And if you set it in motion. You have to stand behind it. And be willing to face the consequences of that.

00:40:08.000 --> 00:40:09.000
Yes.

00:40:09.000 --> 00:40:18.000
And I think a lot of attorneys that have been in Trump's circle like Eastman, Powell, the Mar-a-lago documents attorney that got in trouble too.

00:40:18.000 --> 00:40:28.000
I think attorneys are Realizing that We can no longer. Say, well, I just was throwing ideas out there.

00:40:28.000 --> 00:40:45.000
It wasn't my decision. To run with it. That was the client's decision. And you know, we can be held accountable and I think in these cases where They're trying to affect our democracy and such.

00:40:45.000 --> 00:40:50.000
Find fundamental ways. They should be held accountable.

00:40:50.000 --> 00:41:00.000
Yeah, absolutely. And what do you think is next? I heard the possibility of an arrangement. I think for Thursday.

00:41:00.000 --> 00:41:10.000
Is that the next step?

00:41:10.000 --> 00:41:11.000
Yeah.

00:41:11.000 --> 00:41:15.000
Yes. Yes, so the agreement is going to be Thursday. August third. And, so tomorrow we're recording this on the second and it's.

00:41:15.000 --> 00:41:26.000
Probably going to be quick at the agreement. That's essentially where you say I plead that guilty or And most people don't plead guilty in their arrangement.

00:41:26.000 --> 00:41:27.000
Right.

00:41:27.000 --> 00:41:36.000
But then the court kind of start setting initial timelines of what comes next for the case.

00:41:36.000 --> 00:41:45.000
And the Department of Justice based a lot of criticism. Over the last year from people saying like why aren't you moving faster?

00:41:45.000 --> 00:41:58.000
On this investigation. And bringing charges or getting it in front of a grand jury. And I think that because they took so much time.

00:41:58.000 --> 00:42:06.000
That hopefully this case at this stage will move quicker than it would have had they tried to bring it.

00:42:06.000 --> 00:42:08.000
Many months ago, so we'll see.

00:42:08.000 --> 00:42:16.000
Yeah, because, Jack Smith said that he's wanting this to be a speedy trial.

00:42:16.000 --> 00:42:24.000
Which tells me that they have enough evidence to make it. A speedy trial. And so I think that the wait.

00:42:24.000 --> 00:42:32.000
Was worth it because we're gonna get a more. Thorough trial.

00:42:32.000 --> 00:42:33.000
I hope so too.

00:42:33.000 --> 00:42:34.000
I hope so. We'll see. It'll be really interesting. It'll be really interesting to follow.

00:42:34.000 --> 00:42:47.000
And I know you and I will be. Reporting on it as it unfolds. And but Trump is a lot of legal issues and his efforts to delay.

00:42:47.000 --> 00:43:01.000
These trials until after the election have not been successful. Judges are saying like we are not going to keep delaying this selling this, delaying this.

00:43:01.000 --> 00:43:02.000
Right.

00:43:02.000 --> 00:43:11.000
Now, do judges say that sometimes and then they do get delayed? Yes. You know, they, will probably say, oh, there's discovery issues.

00:43:11.000 --> 00:43:12.000
Yes.

00:43:12.000 --> 00:43:14.000
We can't get access to this or that or we're dealing with. Classified information and national security issues.

00:43:14.000 --> 00:43:15.000
Right.

00:43:15.000 --> 00:43:29.000
But at the end of the day, I think at this point, because so much time is passing because the Department of Justice has hopefully done a really comprehensive job of compiling the evidence and I'm really curious to see.

00:43:29.000 --> 00:43:37.000
What witnesses, what people they might have turned. From Trump's camp. Because I think it's going to get juicy.

00:43:37.000 --> 00:43:42.000
I think it's going to also. I'm like a little bit, I'm kind of wondering like Jared.

00:43:42.000 --> 00:43:49.000
Kushner, does maybe he's got something to do with it because him and, what's his daughter's name?

00:43:49.000 --> 00:43:50.000
Yeah.

00:43:50.000 --> 00:43:59.000
Ivanka Trump, right? They have been very distant from Trump lately. And I know that there was some speculation about Kushner perhaps having been.

00:43:59.000 --> 00:44:06.000
Someone that. Said things, you know, that maybe he wasn't supposed to as Trump's.

00:44:06.000 --> 00:44:13.000
Son-in-law and I'm interested to see it because I think I think he's one of those people that spoke up.

00:44:13.000 --> 00:44:24.000
Right. Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised. I know that they interviewed him. They interviewed Ivanka and And Trump.

00:44:24.000 --> 00:44:35.000
Is, you know, I think Understandably, no one's surprised that he is using this new indictment to kind of like galvanize his base.

00:44:35.000 --> 00:45:00.000
And say like this is a witch hunt. They're just trying to get after me because they know I'm going to win the next election.

00:45:00.000 --> 00:45:01.000
Yes.

00:45:01.000 --> 00:45:06.000
But to the prosecutor and the special prosecutor Jack Smith's credit. Everything I see of him and his interviews, the information he puts out, I think he does a really good job of using objective language and not polarizing language, saying this is what the evidence shows.

00:45:06.000 --> 00:45:17.000
And at the end of the day in a courtroom. With those jury members or those judges.

00:45:17.000 --> 00:45:27.000
I think there's much more chance of success. For the Department of Justice. Then you know on the public stage.

00:45:27.000 --> 00:45:41.000
Right. And for do you think he's ever going to see prison time because a lot of people think he deserves it but don't see it happening because of his status.

00:45:41.000 --> 00:45:48.000
Well, and that's interesting, right? Because they are also And by day, I mean conservatives are pointing to Hunter Biden right now who we covered in our last episode.

00:45:48.000 --> 00:46:14.000
They're saying that the plea deal that he was offered is unfair because of his status and yet we have a former president who is no stranger to the legal system long before he was president.

00:46:14.000 --> 00:46:15.000
Yep.

00:46:15.000 --> 00:46:21.000
He has faced a number of legal issues, alleged civil rights violations. And certainly the defamation case that was very recent now all of these indictments, sexual assault allegations from a few different people, payoffs.

00:46:21.000 --> 00:46:33.000
And so. It's kind of remarkable. If you look at the scope. Over his lifetime of how he's been able to stay out of.

00:46:33.000 --> 00:46:43.000
Yeah.

00:46:43.000 --> 00:46:44.000
Right.

00:46:44.000 --> 00:46:55.000
Jail or prison? But would it surprise me if he if he doesn't face time? No, just because of his status and I also think that they're going to argue that there are some like additional security concerns that come with imprisoning a former president.

00:46:55.000 --> 00:46:56.000
Yeah.

00:46:56.000 --> 00:47:01.000
And all of that, but we'll see. I certainly think that these charges. Could warrant prison time.

00:47:01.000 --> 00:47:02.000
Absolutely.

00:47:02.000 --> 00:47:13.000
Right. Yeah, so I would like to see some accountability because if there is none, then it, it just sends the message that there, there is no equality here.

00:47:13.000 --> 00:47:21.000
So, I'm keeping my fingers crossed. And I'm looking forward to seeing what's next.

00:47:21.000 --> 00:47:31.000
Yeah, and I'll just say lastly on that prison time. Question, I think. I would be remiss if I did not point out that.

00:47:31.000 --> 00:47:44.000
In my day to day, I come across a lot of clients and perspective clients. Who face? Prisoner jail time.

00:47:44.000 --> 00:47:45.000
Right.

00:47:45.000 --> 00:47:57.000
For a lot minor charges. Then what the president is facing. And who? Our treated much differently based on their race and their socio economic status and all of those things.

00:47:57.000 --> 00:47:58.000
Yes.

00:47:58.000 --> 00:48:09.000
So I would hope that when they are in court. They make sure that He is treated. The same.

00:48:09.000 --> 00:48:17.000
Respect in process that. They treat his everyday voters.

00:48:17.000 --> 00:48:28.000
Perfectly said and I think that's all that we're hoping for. And I can't wait to see what's next and discuss it with you here on unveiling democracy.

00:48:28.000 --> 00:48:29.000
Yay!

00:48:29.000 --> 00:48:37.000
Thanks. Thanks for listening guys.